tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776238872768029991.post1177203617391189113..comments2009-11-16T16:56:53.280-08:00Comments on Speaking Our Truths: White Guilttruth speakerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16835023699721757742noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776238872768029991.post-62545963542575622842009-08-19T06:35:29.920-07:002009-08-19T06:35:29.920-07:00And, to continue....
I think that it is worthwhil...And, to continue....<br /><br />I think that it is worthwhile to recognize that there is a large faction of people that do discriminate based on these exterior attributes and that our society HAS been built upon the oppression imposed by one ethnic category over several others. I think that it is also paramount that we recognize that by still defining people by these ethnic categories: black, white, etc, - even in the spirit of focusing our resources and attention for a certain group's benefit - we are still boxing people in. We are still defining them and confining them to particular initial situation: "You are white? Oh, you are privileged. You will have it easy." "You are black? Oh, you are oppressed and underprivileged. You have a lot to overcome." How about we raise our children to see ethnicity as something to celebrate, a historically rich aspect of ourselves that offers us uniqueness and how about we DON'T tell children that because they are this color or that that they have a responsibility to do this or be that or that it will be harder for them to do this or be that? What if we raise our children to know (not believe, but know) that no matter which road they have to take to do it - because the effort of the struggle is ALWAYS individual in the long run - that they can do whatever they want, be whomever they want to be? Maybe if we raise children that all possibilities are possible then they won't grow up feeling defeated to begin with whether they were raised with privilege or advantage or raised in poverty and all odds against them. (Sssshhh, don't tell them the odds, let them just beat them!)Heather L. Ashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776238872768029991.post-74607760210503277952009-08-19T06:34:29.559-07:002009-08-19T06:34:29.559-07:00I am just going to put this out there. Part of th...I am just going to put this out there. Part of the problem (on all sides) with racism is that we still see people as their racial identity first - most times based on skin color. You, sitting in that car, having a near existential crisis over a little fender bender when clearly no one was hurt: did it ever occur to you that they might not identify themselves as "black" or "African-American" that maybe they were British or from the Caribbean or Indian or anything else? And what if they are privileged "people of color?" What if you assuming that they couldn't afford to pay for the damages is a form of racism - based on the assumption that because they are "black" that they haven't been put into or worked their way into a life situation that makes them able to handle this. Maybe when he said, "Oh man, I don't need this right now" he wasn't referring to the money. Maybe it was bad timing because he was trying to get somewhere by a certain time or maybe this car just had special meaning to him. I mean, I can see that it is a sort of cultural pendulum swing to take on the responsibility of how white culture has put racial minorities down in the worst and most horrible ways and feel all the guilt and act in positive ways on that guilt. But I think that we should be careful that we don't get so lost in our guilt that make assumptions about a person based on their skin color and how we automatically perceive their race based on that information. I think it is giving in to racial stereotypes just as much to assume that a person of color DIDN'T grow up with privilege just as much as it is to assume a white person did. And that is just as much a potential "perceived" form of racism as anything. If you called and asked offered money, you might even offend him if he thought you were doing it because you are white and privileged and he guessed (correctly) that he was black and underprivileged.<br /><br />And to be honest, on a personal level, it really pisses me off when you say that by "living and breathing you are imposing harm on others. By being I am therefore participating in a system." The systems we have in place still have a TON of problems and issues that need addressing and fixing when it comes to treating people with equality. But the truth is, no matter how many regulations or laws you put into effect, if people don't do the work on a personal level, society is never going to be completely rid of ignorant, harmful, unfair treatment based on religion, gender, race, age, etc, etc, etc, ETC!!!!! <br /><br /> It doesn't mean that I don't applaud your battle, and that it isn't a worthy cause to fight it, but I think there is an argument for racism when we hate our very existence or feel guilty about it because we are white or black or asian or whatever. <br /><br />Before I moved to Boston, I had never really seen much in the way of homeless people. But now I see sooooo many of them on a daily basis and my experience is that there are just as many white ones as black ones. More men than women. More adults than children. More 30 - 50 aged people than older. Never seen someone I could classify as Asian, Indian, or Middle Eastern - but that is not to say they don't exist. So, maybe I need to take a more active role in ending poverty for those less fortunate, but maybe I just need to help others who are less fortunate regardless of their ethnic identity because hunger, homelessness, and poverty don't seem to discriminate in my experience.Heather L. Ashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776238872768029991.post-59699000512634680272009-08-18T22:59:05.294-07:002009-08-18T22:59:05.294-07:00So lots of thoughts and queries....
And to start ...So lots of thoughts and queries....<br /><br />And to start off, I want to put out there (just as I posed to you yesterday on the phone and as Kathleen mentioned) we should definitely do collaborate on a writing, either through responses or as a collective piece.<br /><br />Here are my notes I jotted as I read through your piece a few times:<br /><br />Maybe the thoughts on guilt should extend pass the dynamics of privilege and position of power and advantage, but more into how one operates, functions, thinks, and struggles with the other. Ummm like what role (specifically) does the other play in your guilt outside of the obvious one? Like the assumptions that seem to be brought up with your car incident- like why even the idea of offering money? What assumptions are being made, especially after he made known that he has full coverage in the want to part the situation with giving him money. Assumably, he will be able to cover his damages through his insurance (well if you both had done the police report and all lol). <br /><br />Where I’m going with this is the yearn to take care of or over extending oneself to the other as another way in which the awareness of your social location as a white being plays into or operates around guilt. And how such placing of the other and yourself in this manner may further draw definitive lines of separation or otherness. <br /><br />On another note, I had some questions about the different stages.<br />In stage 5, there’s the characteristic of one who actively seeks to redefine whiteness and it left me pondering exactly what that means/refers to. Like is it an internal defining or more one through action you think they’re referring to? And what does either look, feel, think like. What’s a redefinition of whiteness through antiracist work (Is it more than an awareness and struggle with guilt)? And what exactly is behind a positive white identity (is it merely the consciousness of ones social location)? Or exactly what does a fight against whiteness through white guilt entail?<br /><br />For me (without the guilt of course) a fight against whiteness is within my resistance and understanding of the fabricated images, history, narratives, messages, constructions, etc through words, self-love, teaching, learning, growing, protesting...<br /><br />What’s it for you? And you too Kathleen...well if any of this even makes sense. Just my scribbled notes and own understanding of what I just read. Call me so we can chat! Peace and great great writing Leora. I know how much it took for you produce this writing and I am proud of you for doing so!L. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609917088592465135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776238872768029991.post-20398560276380016052009-08-18T20:32:55.793-07:002009-08-18T20:32:55.793-07:00Kathleen, I just commented on your post-too funny!...Kathleen, I just commented on your post-too funny! First, I am totally open to a response piece-go for it! To answer some of your questions. Well, first let me say I love how you connected guilt with grief. Yes, I think that guilt functions similar to grief-you never get over it. At least that I have experienced so far. It is always present and can contribute to our process of evolving as people. It also, for me at least, nags in away that tugs at your heart. It is that depth and darkness that persists with many unanswered questions. <br /><br />I also think that grief is a great word to use when talking about Whites relation to our past, present and future. How can we not feel at some level, grief? We have failed so many children in the school system, imprisoned so many men and women, infiltrated drugs into communities tearing apart family structures. On a deeper level I think people DO feel grief although I think others would argue that that isn't possible since our actions persist. But,grief isn't a comfortable feeling to sit with or examine either. Overall in this country do we know how to mourn and deal with death. Because death is ultimately what we're trying to impose onto a people and a culture. Not just Black people or Black culture, but even in other countries with our capitalist and neoliberalist values and way of life that we solicit. <br /><br />I really don't think, at least where I am right now, that White guilt is "overcome". We cannot NOT be oppressors. It would take much awareness and huge structural shifts to make it feasible for White guilt to be overcome, in my opinion. <br /><br />I think White guilt in itself is not a tool, but can be channeled to reveal tools that are available. e.g. text & literature, dialogue, etc. The first stage is addressing the guilt and understanding what it is representative of. Why are people so defensive about being labeled racist? Because their bones know truth. You cannot hide injustice from the spiritual body. But maybe power and desire to possess power outweighs guilt and grief because then people have the power to suppress emotions that prohibit them from final attainment of power. <br /><br />I think that guilt can weigh us down,definitely. But, we cannot let it. Because if guilt leads us to stagnancy then we are allowing ourselves to be controlled by the system itself. We are giving in to those who created and maintain the system instead of altering it and destroying it. We as White people need to dialogue around this concept. We also need to facilitate conversations for White people to examine their guilt. We need to talk with people of color to see how we can be allies. It needs to be an ever present discussion. We need to be able to examine,listen, learn, grow. Create a new cycle focused on progress and growth.<br /><br />I hope that addresses all of your questions. Let me know if I missed something.Leeooorahhhhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18080905249440739925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-776238872768029991.post-45488596717748590532009-08-18T20:00:17.368-07:002009-08-18T20:00:17.368-07:00Oh Leora there’s so much I want to comment on here...Oh Leora there’s so much I want to comment on here. First of all, thank you for posting this piece. You know I have the same fears of you surrounding this issue, fears that almost kept me from writing on this blog at all. Even though it is scary and it is vulnerable, I’m glad you posted this because it makes me feel like I have permission to feel and analyze my white guilt without feeling bad or selfish for doing so. <br /><br /><i>Every second of my life I will continue to benefit and no matter how much I try to push up against my Whiteness it will just laugh at me. I am still a part of the problem. I guess in some ways that hurts. It hurts me that I am hurting people I love and care about and innocent people that I have never met. By living and breathing I am imposing harm on others. By being I am therefore participating in a system. Point blank that sucks. It sucks.</i><br /><br />I feel you on this so strongly. I feel this when I walk into my work and I’m surrounded by 20 homeless Black women and children who are forced to listen to me because I’m labeled “Staff” and they’re labeled “Resident.” I feel this when I walk by a house still boarded up with a half-torn off roof because this government has still not fixed what it so horribly broke four years ago. No matter how “anti-racist” or “in solidarity” I work to be, it will never be enough and I will always be perpetuating the system in some way or another.<br /><br /><i>Guilt is really representative of responsibility. To talk about the guilt that we feel we need to become accountable to our actions (even if unintentional) as well as history…if given the space, the vocabulary, the knowledge to dialogue around this could we alter guilt into responsibility into growth into knowledge into action into progress? What if we let those feelings of guilt emerge and talk about it? Discuss it? Critique it? I’m not implying that we sit down and lament and have a cry fest feeling bad. But, truth is guilt does feel bad and not knowing how to take responsibility in order to reverse and change the system-not knowing what to do and how to do it does not feel that great either. Not knowing how to fix instead of be the problem is crappy.</i><br /><br />I think this is a really important statement and I haven't thought of guilt in terms of responsibility before. I think that helps a lot, too, with giving permission to talk about it, because so often I feel like discussing white guilt is just another way that whites bring the focus back to them rather than dealing with larger issues of racism within society and analyzing their own actions and the realities of their privilege within that society. Yet your describing another option where, without wallowing in our own self-pity, we find ways to discuss white guilt in a productive manner and make progress. <br /><br />Is it making progress past the guilt, as in is white guilt something that must be overcome, or is that part of the problem w/how white guilt is viewed, that white people often try to shut out the guilt and “get over it” rather than working with it and making it a tool? Could white guilt be similar to grief, where it’s never something you get over, you always carry it with you, but you just find ways of finding power within it to work to your advantage? Is that how white guilt can operate, or does it just weigh us down and make it more difficult to act positively? <br /><br />I feel like the best overall way to really comment on this and build on what you’ve started would be a response piece at some point, would you be open to that or would you rather discussion related to this topic stay within the comments section?k. shea petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976899223231688437noreply@blogger.com